the difference in battles now compared to bak in da 90s and early 2000s

[mikeyice]

Originally Posted by formburnunit

My opinion between now and back in the 90's when I first started is that there are too many jams now for money and trophies. I'd prefer b-boying to be half art and half sport not like 85% sport and 15% art the way it seems nowadays with tournaments left and right.

I agree with how the internet killed a lot of the raw vibe as well. I think the best solution is to cut down on the number of tournaments all over the world being held for money and trophies because the internet is going to stay filled with video footage from all over the place.

Cutting down on the number of tournaments for money will probably never happen either though 'cause it's kinda like letting a kid run wild in a candy store. Yeah, there's lots of candy all over the place and it's fun for like 30 minutes or so but after a while your stomach is gonna start hurting 'cause of the lack of substance. Same thing with b-boying. Tournaments for money are cool 'cause it's a decent test of performance under pressure but there's not enough counter balance of just raw breaking, raw creativity and just that raw spirit of things that was around more back in the days.

Despite these criticiscms I still love b-boying culture. One of the best things to happen for my entire life was to become a b-boy. I still see more positive aspects about how b-boying can enhance people's lives than negative. Peace......

i am gonna agree with you 1000% here!

[Bboy Boost]

why no ones raw no more is because of:
1/ lazy judging, judges looking for cleaness rather than difficulty because its easier to notice slip ups, rather than compairing 2 amazing raw sets and trying to figure out what was harder/better. its easy to do clean sixstep (very boring) and win a battle rather than do halos (raw) and having a chance of falling and "losing".

2/money tight/grabbing bboys, bboys now dont turn up to jams just to have fun, cypher other crews and just dance where as they did in the 80/90's. now they go "is there prize money?", "how much is the prize?" if there isnt they wont turn up..
bboys now also ask for travel expences.. wtf.. u never have that in the 90's its alright if someone offers to pay for u to go to their jam thats kool and respecting but asking is cheeky.

3/ for me the biggest reason why theres no rawness or originality is because of workshops and internet biting.
the teachers teach 10000000000 bboys the same thing.. tell them "if u do that you will win" then.. everyones the same. and in the process the teachers get £100000000000 lmao
people should learn things for themselfs, not because someone else said to, not to win, because they love what they are doing and want to do it
and the biters are shit because they aint theirselves. (and most of the time the biters only do half the bitten set, missing out the hard bit that made the set good)

this is only my opinion. u can have urs to, so.. rip into every thing i wrote :/

peace
boost

[Bboy Noxz]

Originally Posted by ToyzOfZion

hahaa yea.... the 90's was the best time for bboying....

huge growth spurt in creativity and innovation.... now it kinda hit a wall...

no one wants to commit to that kind of hard work anymore besides a handful of crews out there..

most bboys jus look for easy props now...

Thats true, in the 90 people danced with courage and with heart, nowadays people dance for money,fame, attention and popularity.
Bboy Noxz - Stylistic Tribe crew, King Breakerz crew (Puerto Rico)
God bless ya

[evanterry]

some djs are really killing me with the boring ass funk beats, i want to take a nap rather than battle at jams now.
Sneeze
Souljerz crew nj

[lilrip133]

it's not just bboying though, it's everything. this is the age of crybabies, touch fouls in basketball, can't tackle below the knees in football, can't curse on tv, boxing gloves are bigger, you can't torture prisoners of war even with the weakest techniques. it's the age of pussies in general. what happened to the rawness? just listen to rap now. big l's "love song" was no endz no skinz. nowadays we have bussit babies. smh at the world and it's softness.

[Ritsoku Fushi]

Damn I haven't posted here in a minute.

I understand what Remeks is saying, but I think he's more talking about the phenomenon of everybody trying to look like they're in Zulu Kings and Rock Steady as against saying that it's a Zulu nation deal. That's where the misinterpretation came about I believe.

I started in 2k3. There were specific eras that I saw. i came into it when new comers were still going crazy over power moves and blow ups. It was that Expression hit that freeze on that snare era. Even if you crashed right after. Back then though you wouldn't realize it cause it was just fresh and new. You look at footage in 97, and even when people did hit specific sections of the beat, it wasn't noticed back then. Back then from all the footage I've seen, it was just the match move versus move. And just don't give a f'ck whatever style.

The advent of 1 minute routines and "enter and do whatever's required just to win" took over. I debate that with my boy all the time and you know what he's right. If you need a routine to win a battle and it's expected nowadays then that's what it takes to win. Just a side note on that, I personally never agreed with the opinion that it's a team battle so we gotta see teamwork in there meaning there has to be some kind of routine. Don't get me wrong. I understand the idea, but I don't agree with it. I mean sometimes people just come together not even knowing each other to enter a jam, but honestly if a crew/team believes in each other's abilities and goes on that premise entering a battle then that's teamwork right there. Being part of a team is believing in the other person as well.

Back to point. Rawness is there it's just harder to find.

1) Big events are more prevalent that's good, but teams now just take this as an opportunity to do the bare minimum to win. Me, I don't care if I lose, Imma do me.

2) The necessity to protect the culture from being abused by the media because we don't have a standardized method of teaching or calling people bboys. Because bboying isn't as old as ballet and many of the moves were being made on the spot, we don't have text books saying "this is how you bboy". What's happening now is to protect the culture we're trying to write those books and rules now. There are basic moves that everyone shares in common. My teacher Brian Green said it, Bruce Lee said it: we only have 2 hands and 2 feet so a lot of the stuff we're going to do is overlap. But it's our physical differences that make us carve up individual bboy personalities.

There were different styles for different places. A lot of people made it out to be a bad thing. If you ever went to another country you'd look forward to seeing the "style" of that country. Now I can understand what Remeks is saying where EVERYBODY is trying to look like they're in Zulu Kings or Rocksteady. You gotta admit that. Heck even I was doing that back then when I met Katsu and got down with him. He opened me up to so many concepts, but back then it was still new cause half the world wasn't doing it. It's good in moderation but you have to flip it.

3) Music's a big part of it. It's getting to the point that I'm gonna learn djing. Read between the lines, I can't get down to most of the music being played at jams now. Of course I can, but it doesn't make me want to. I was in the club with Link once and the dj dropped a wack beat. He asked me "does this move you?" Nah it doesn't. It's ez to do a little shuffle to a song because you've heard it 1000 times. Not much risk being taken anymore.

4) This lovey dovey friend friend attitude to some extent has brought the rawness down. In the sense of everyone wants to be all civil and make sure they don't step on anyone else's toes. I'm all for civil, but it's like it you go to a jam now and get aggressive in your go downs...in some jams people will look at you like you're crazy. On the other hand I'll be aggressive all day and battle till I'm out of breath, but I'm not one to ever shit talk and I'll always shake hands at the end of the day. I want to battle with high energy but not get punched out at the end of the night for it. Call me pussy but there's gotta be a way to have the rawness but still the peace.


I like what Form said in his interview. A lot of people are saying the same thing now. Bboying is going full circle. It's underground, then it blows up and some people take it even deeper underground when that happens. It gets played out in the mainstream, goes dead for a couple of years in mainstream then BAM.

5) The internet. Imma be dropping quotes that I got from inspirational dancers and mentors along this 5 year journey of bboying I've had. I remember I was chilling with Nemesis and I asked him if he had any bboy vids I could watch. And he said he doesn't watch vids. I was like "yeah but how do you study the craft and stuff". He said yeah you have gems you look at sometimes, but you don't try to keep up with other bboys you have other bboys try to keep up with you.

There's still rawness, it's just waiting training silently. I feel what Marksiller was saying about having to go out of your way to find teachers. I feel that way now for the raw. You have to go out of your way to find that rawness, that underground bboy. Or go out of your way to become it. Train yourself to see trends and break them, if you're trying to be different/innovator. If you want to perfect something even more then follow the trend and push it beyond where it was.

Bring the rawness, be the embodiment of it.

[Hairtrax]

Ritsoku Fushi that was some thorough stuff. Good read.

[Animal]

Originally Posted by evanterry

also in the 90s djs use to play hardcore hiphop breaks doing the battle such as krs 1 "return of the boombat". Nowadays djs play alot of boring ass funk beats. bring back the 90s where djs and bboys were both creative and battles were hype because the music was hype

Souljerz crew

AMEN

yeah not every fuckin funk beat is good to battle too

I love funk but damn man that 90s hip-hop was raww


lotta wisedom Ritsoku

[mikeyice]

Originally Posted by Animal

AMEN

yeah not every fuckin funk beat is good to battle too

I love funk but damn man that 90s hip-hop was raww


lotta wisedom Ritsoku

so true bring back black sheep you can get with this!

[mjg]

word man i get hyped up as hell whenever a gangstarr track gets played...even if its like full clip sure it doesnt have a traditional break beat but who gives a fuck

[RawElement]

For me the first thing I saw was beat street lol, I just assumed we all had to be pretty much assholes in battle, no holds bar shit, Im from N.Y and for me peeps is always Raw there and showing mad flava and aggression, but I think someone stated earlier in the thread that the individual characters are gone. I mean you see a bboy from the states on one clip then watch another one in europe, you think its the same person, I think we all need to watch our fave movie or something and try to be them lol, I dont know, but we can really compare the attitudes today, what started bboying and was a whole other ball game, now kids see and want to do it, and develop skill but not the attitude because no one told them maybe how the should be, or try like how YOU want not what the lastest move, but I still love bboying, it helped me see who I was, and all the kats I met are ill, I just think maybe the kats that are more experinced should show the upcoming peeps whats its all about.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Animal

AMEN

yeah not every fuckin funk beat is good to battle too

I love funk but damn man that 90s hip-hop was raww


lotta wisedom Ritsoku

and at the same time... not every 90's hip hop song is good to battle to. some of them are the slowest, no energy songs.

You gotta find balance, but honestly most of the time, the original beat that (insert random 90's hip hop song) uses is usually better or there's more possibility for a DJ to get creative with it, it's just on that DJ to be creative, and on the bboys to take a stance against wack DJs playing slow, boring, repetitive, no energy songs.

Get quality, educated DJs in the scene and the scene gets better.