the difference in battles now compared to bak in da 90s and early 2000s

[nothing]

Thank u Mikey for putting that out there.......... Who ever still does that spin the bottle trend(people were not in high school or slumber parties in battlegrounds) or shaking hands with your opponent or even stopping battles because cats wanna do a brooklyn on eachother needs to stop cause thats taking the animosity out of the bboy/bgirl culture straight up. I know that heads wanna use strategy to beat there opponent but my b to say it but if your waiting for your opponent to go out first , not wanting to uprock against your opponent if he goes after you or shaking his hand before the battle then your just straight bitch for it. Even though you would even catch me doing any of those things every once in a long blue, its not koo and putting bboying to a soft level. Maaaan fuck it if a fight breaks out and thats the end of the jam but thats what heads had to deal with back then too. On the longrun, heads would know that the fighting part has no sense to it. Just let them figure that out for themselves cause its a part of life. Correct me if im wrong... please have a good reason cause so far i feel that me and others who feel the same way have a point here............ peace

[bboycrumbs]

Originally Posted by evanterry

The 90s were the age of creativity. Now you see the majority play it safe by doing what everyone else is doing. Sadly alot judges support that fact by giving them a pass or maybe even give them a win. Well thats the era we live in, unfortunately, personally it kind of turned me off even going to jams. but no one can change that. It only get worse before it gets better, there is a whole new generation that are coming up strictly by watching mtv and youtube. shoutouts to those who been staying authentic and staying true to themselves and even more props to those who stay true and actually win battles, giving people the inspiration to stay unique like we did in the 90s. peace

Souljerz crew

well said right here. my thought exactly. theirs a bunch of other factors that come into play of course also but originality & finding ones self is the biggest issue. like Cros said too, the internet is a huge reason why things are the way they are now. youtube n all these sites that give us instant access to global footage is negative & positive. they say its cool cause everyone can heat up a bag of popcorn n sit in front of their monitor to see whats new. it sucks because nothing is sacred anymore. yes the internet is a great outlet to spread knowledge & meet heads all over the globe but at the same time its a hate machine driven by a bunch of wannabe analysts who probably dont even practice your profession but seem to know everything better than you. these are the people that are trying to dictate hip hop today...behind a screen! like Method Man said "F*ck a critic, they talk about it while i live it!" the problem is i feel a lot of heads listen to these so called critics and want to fit in to get a good review! to always be talked about in a good light. thats where the change comes into play. 90's we never gave a f*ck...2000's still dont give a f*ck! the true stay true.

also like Jayrawk said about heads screamin...yellin all bitchy at u while your bustin...thats the worst battle tactic ive ever seen. u should always respect your opponent no matter the skill level. no matter how good u think u are, your actions show your true skill level! thats why ever since day 1 in all battles i never say a word. i dont have to talk...whats the point? if u gotta resort to trying to mess your opponent up by sceaming at him while hes dancin...thats pathetic! also i feel its aight to give a pound before a battle. it doesnt make u a sucka its a sign of respect. if theres no personal beef n its a test of skills, then why not. look at boxers. they touch gloves before every fight n then beat the hell out of each other. dont forget this is an art form not just warfare!

at the end of the day like somebody mentioned early in this thread, we can talk about it till were blue in the face but we gotta just let it run its course. some will conform, some will evolve & some will eventually quit entirely. u see i do agree that the musicality in breaking is much better now than in the 90's & i've said this before. also the degree of difficulty is higher in power moves as well. however nobody does raw power moves anymore. everything is airflare orientated. u can look at Jazzy J from Renegades or SuperDave SEC & see nobody does power moves like that anymore...that raw power. so i believe things will consistantly fluctuate n things that were great one day will be trash on another to hazey eyes. what heads dont realize is those that kept it true n already had the advantage in authenticity & originality throughout the 90's into the 2000's are the ones that reinvent themselves over n over while advancing their musicality in the process along with everybody else. i mean its not like we were off beat in the 90's but now its definitely more accented. so i believe those that cant reinvent themselves will be hot for now. in 5 years lets see if your favorite most hyped bboys are still the so called best. i read another thread about the most consistant bboys & most of it makes me laugh. people should look up that word in a dictionary before they post. if your talking about consistant than talk about pioneers from the 80's that are still rippin today hard...cats from the 90's still rippin today hard that reinvent themselves time after time after time to "consistantly" change the game! it all goes back to the critics issue. truth is let it all be. yet cats like myself & others that really do this can drop a gem here n there to give the other side of the coin.

[bboysilee]

man im glad heads are finally realizing how watered down shit is nowadays...the internet dun fucked things up..i aint gonna lie...i watch sum clips on the web..and theres usually only 1-2 clips that catch my eye a month...but whenever i dig thru my old school 90's crate...gooood dayum...all the battles are HOTT !...i admit , bboys werent that keen on dancing or hittin the beats back then...but i prefer watching how bboys battled styles vs styles back then...rather than nowadays everyone looks the same and will usually try to top another bboy with the same move....i mean sure everything evolves but just seems like bitting nowadays is ok...thats another main thing that fucked things up...the biting issue was like "ZERO TOLERANCE" back then...thats wat preserved the originality back then...i almost seen cats nearly fight each other over biting back then...nowadays people just let it fly, cus they probably think its a recycled move that every bboy can use...naw fuck that...i came up thru bboyin in the 90's and was taught to always come up wit ur own shit...in fact the only moves that were ok to do back then was power moves, six step, sum simple foot work, very limited threads and u had to leave the rest up to ur imagination...but naw today, the move u made up is everyone else's move...bring the 90's mentality back !

[bboysilee]

someone said something about the music nowadays too..i totally agree..i like some of the funk and break beats...but damn, a lot of dj's are playin that shit out at jams...i can't even get hype when i hear the same fukin songs when im practicing..watever happend to breakin to the raw hiphop shit...gimme some of that wu-tang, rakim, tribe called quest, de la soul, slug, del tha funky homosaphien...shit ill even bust to sum new school cats like jedi mind tricks, cage kennylz, non-phixon, groutch, etc...i just need sum rap vocals and harder beats...feel me?

[nothing]

I guess crumbs is right about the hand shaking before the battle issue. You were an insperation to me since 7 gems vol:2 and you still brought that fire even if the brotha shows luv before the battle or not. I jus wanna be agressive before the battle starts cause if i touch gloves with my opponent before hand then i feel like i loose a part of that agressiveness ya know. Imma eat my words for what i said before but i def cant change my mind for everything else i said about battling........ peace

[mikeyice]

Originally Posted by bboycrumbs

well said right here. my thought exactly. theirs a bunch of other factors that come into play of course also but originality & finding ones self is the biggest issue. like Cros said too, the internet is a huge reason why things are the way they are now. youtube n all these sites that give us instant access to global footage is negative & positive. they say its cool cause everyone can heat up a bag of popcorn n sit in front of their monitor to see whats new. it sucks because nothing is sacred anymore. yes the internet is a great outlet to spread knowledge & meet heads all over the globe but at the same time its a hate machine driven by a bunch of wannabe analysts who probably dont even practice your profession but seem to know everything better than you. these are the people that are trying to dictate hip hop today...behind a screen! like Method Man said "F*ck a critic, they talk about it while i live it!" the problem is i feel a lot of heads listen to these so called critics and want to fit in to get a good review! to always be talked about in a good light. thats where the change comes into play. 90's we never gave a f*ck...2000's still dont give a f*ck! the true stay true.

also like Jayrawk said about heads screamin...yellin all bitchy at u while your bustin...thats the worst battle tactic ive ever seen. u should always respect your opponent no matter the skill level. no matter how good u think u are, your actions show your true skill level! thats why ever since day 1 in all battles i never say a word. i dont have to talk...whats the point? if u gotta resort to trying to mess your opponent up by sceaming at him while hes dancin...thats pathetic! also i feel its aight to give a pound before a battle. it doesnt make u a sucka its a sign of respect. if theres no personal beef n its a test of skills, then why not. look at boxers. they touch gloves before every fight n then beat the hell out of each other. dont forget this is an art form not just warfare!

at the end of the day like somebody mentioned early in this thread, we can talk about it till were blue in the face but we gotta just let it run its course. some will conform, some will evolve & some will eventually quit entirely. u see i do agree that the musicality in breaking is much better now than in the 90's & i've said this before. also the degree of difficulty is higher in power moves as well. however nobody does raw power moves anymore. everything is airflare orientated. u can look at Jazzy J from Renegades or SuperDave SEC & see nobody does power moves like that anymore...that raw power. so i believe things will consistantly fluctuate n things that were great one day will be trash on another to hazey eyes. what heads dont realize is those that kept it true n already had the advantage in authenticity & originality throughout the 90's into the 2000's are the ones that reinvent themselves over n over while advancing their musicality in the process along with everybody else. i mean its not like we were off beat in the 90's but now its definitely more accented. so i believe those that cant reinvent themselves will be hot for now. in 5 years lets see if your favorite most hyped bboys are still the so called best. i read another thread about the most consistant bboys & most of it makes me laugh. people should look up that word in a dictionary before they post. if your talking about consistant than talk about pioneers from the 80's that are still rippin today hard...cats from the 90's still rippin today hard that reinvent themselves time after time after time to "consistantly" change the game! it all goes back to the critics issue. truth is let it all be. yet cats like myself & others that really do this can drop a gem here n there to give the other side of the coin.

crumbs broke down the whole b-boy system great minds think alike virgo's!

[deeznutz]

you should be hungry for bboyn not force fed.it loses the flava.
the apprietiation is gone.
90's baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Same]

I started bboying in '01 but I've seen footage from the 80's (maybe even the late 70's) until now and of course bboying has changed; that's how things work, things always change and that stays constant, if things don't change, things will get worn out unless it is something indescribable.

As for how things have changed, of course breakdancing is a little bit more mainstream nowadays as more people generally know what it is and some might think that that's a bad thing because as more people know about it, the more likely there is potential to have more bad things involved in general, however that also means that it is growing and developing which can of course be considered a good thing.

I work in Table Tennis and so I know some of its history. Basically after it boomed in the early 1900s, about 1901-1902, 30 years had passed and it was able to become an official sport in the late 20s. By the late 80s it became an official Olympic sport.

The reason I brought that up was because in the late 20s I'm sure a lot of people probably thought it changed a lot and missed the good old days when it was more pure and the like, but also with its development, the level of competition was raised and the standardization of it was also created in order for the competitions to be fair. The thing is, even though it's been standardized, there has still been innovation in it, even 80-90 years after it started as well as today of course, over a hundred years later.

People can argue that breaking is as ancient as pre-historic times on which I wouldn't disagree, however speaking about our current history, breaking is only about 30 or so years old. It is still pretty young, though considering it has been about that much time, it is probably a good time for it to be standardized.

I actually had a chance to meet and speak with the American president of international relations for the International Olympics Committee (IOC) and I had the opportunity to ask him what are the criteria for a sport to be accepted into the Olympics. I also asked him what makes an activity considered a sport. The latter question appeared to be a more difficult one as even the contest of hot-dog eating is registered as an official sport in the United States with its own association. Most people also know that figure skating is more than just an official sport, and some may not know that even ballroom dancing is also an official Olympic sport.

As for the first question, the criteria for an activity to be considered an Olympic sport are:

1. People know of it widely and are doing it around the world
2. It has at least 70 registered Associations (representing an area/region or country) around the world
3. It has registered an official International Organization for the activity
4. No drugs are used in the activity.

So although people might say things are getting watered down, from one perspective this may be true, however I think the fact is that simply many more people are doing it which means that the percentage of truly talented bboys in the scene becomes smaller and smaller. However this also means it is more able to form associations, be recognized publicly as a legitimate practice, allowing for more support from government bodies as well as it being standardized, thus raising; the level of challenge, people's ability to understand it and judges' ability to judge it.

I think that if it could be standardized without compromising its artistic integrity, it could be done properly. If this becomes a reality, though there may still be dispute as to who is better than who, who should have won and who deserves to be more famous, maybe it will also allow for an environment for people to be able to further improve themselves rather than be too concerned over what other people think or how they are different than others since everything would be set officially.

Thus I think although there are excellent elements of breaking from when it started until today that may not be the same generally, it has also allowed for its development and its ability to form into something substantial that has potential to be a legitimate profession, standardized form of competition, a completely established and ever-improving system in society as well as a mainstay form of art.

Those are just my thoughts for the moment, anyone is of course free to make any comments in response or in general.

Thank you.

- Sharif

[JAYRAWKSEC]

Originally Posted by bboysilee

someone said something about the music nowadays too..i totally agree..i like some of the funk and break beats...but damn, a lot of dj's are playin that shit out at jams...i can't even get hype when i hear the same fukin songs when im practicing..watever happend to breakin to the raw hiphop shit...gimme some of that wu-tang, rakim, tribe called quest, de la soul, slug, del tha funky homosaphien...shit ill even bust to sum new school cats like jedi mind tricks, cage kennylz, non-phixon, groutch, etc...i just need sum rap vocals and harder beats...feel me?

yup forealz im with u on that. dont get me wrong i love the breaks but that 90s hip hop is wut we used to dance to all the time. for example

[mikeyice]

Originally Posted by bboysilee

someone said something about the music nowadays too..i totally agree..i like some of the funk and break beats...but damn, a lot of dj's are playin that shit out at jams...i can't even get hype when i hear the same fukin songs when im practicing..watever happend to breakin to the raw hiphop shit...gimme some of that wu-tang, rakim, tribe called quest, de la soul, slug, del tha funky homosaphien...shit ill even bust to sum new school cats like jedi mind tricks, cage kennylz, non-phixon, groutch, etc...i just need sum rap vocals and harder beats...feel me?

here another topic i wanted to share some light on what happen to hiphop in battles the music side?
i love the times you just came like 300 miles to los angeles hella tired from the drive you walk up to
the jam you see mad people in line then the music, "BOOM BAP BOOM BAP" that wuz the reason you
got juiced in line waiting shuffling your feet while you get ready to pay your entrance fee hearing
tribe called quest, del, ice cube yes that's correct ice cube remember i am from the "WEST COAST"
but man it made you feel pump you walk into circle see everybody vibing while you hear the senario
everybody saying busta rhymes lines power impact "BOOM" now days i am in line low energy dont get
me wrong it's still hype but it dont really feel like hiphop. back in the 90's we never ever ever evaaaaa
dance to the "THEME TO LOVE BOAT" OR SCOOBY DOO SONG TRACK" i been dancing well over 20 years
if you combine my junior high school and elementary years too i never herd 80% of what deejay's are
playing. i love the deejay bcuz his the back bone to the dancers they came first then the b-boys but today
it's really sad to me..i want stop trying to make effort but i can't help but seeing it it's like hiphop at home
sleeping in bed when i go to jam, another thing is i can't give out his name but deejay told me that he dont
like spinning hiphop at b-boy jams nomore? okay pump your brakes back up take off the seat belt you said
what??? that's just like saying i hate africa bambaattaa but i love zulu nation, you can't seperate the two i
dont know why in these's days and times the script the times.. i am all for the new bcuz were alive today the
90's were the best times in my life with music, family, fashion & girlZ...but it will always be about hiphop no
matter what new computer come out with how fast the new 2010 car come out or what ever new i-phone they make.. i am captain of my own ship it's called "HIPHOP" and if it goes down belive me i am not jumping
ship hiphop my main source of energy the reason i am alive today so there it is respect to all that read this one love, keep searching for truth the net dope but look deep inside you dont be slave to no computer!!!!!

[bboycrumbs]

about the music nowadays i talked about this in a thread i started a couple months ago as well. basically saying the DJ's now are conformed just like the Bboys. their mind is fried with breakbeats! yes we all love breakbeats but we also love the crispy Hip Hop Beatz that slap u in your grill! this is the reason why Franky Flave has started Dj'ing at jams n i think i might have to get back behind the tables again too. headz dont know i've been Dj'in as long as i've been breaking. so basically im saying that the only way its gonna happen is if we get behind the tables n play them ourselves lol
any DJ's reading this that always play at Bboy events...heres some food for thought.
EMENIM
BUSTA RHYMES
ORGANIZED KONFUSION
TRIBE CALLED QUEST
DE LA SOUL
EPMD
RAKIM
NAS
WU TANG
ICE CUBE
ALKAHOLIKS
FREESTYLE FELLOWSHIP
PETE ROCK & CL SMOOTH
CHINO XL
CYPRESS HILL
HIEROGLYPHICS
COMMON
BOOT CAMP CLIK
BLACK SHEEP
GANGSTAR
JERU THE DAMAJA
LEADER OF THE NEW SCHOOL
LORDS OF THE UNDERGROUND
LL COOL J
NICE & SMOOTH
PUBLIC ENEMY
theres some gems u might wanna think about??????

[mikeyice]

Originally Posted by bboycrumbs

about the music nowadays i talked about this in a thread i started a couple months ago as well. basically saying the DJ's now are conformed just like the Bboys. their mind is fried with breakbeats! yes we all love breakbeats but we also love the crispy Hip Hop Beatz that slap u in your grill! this is the reason why Franky Flave has started Dj'ing at jams n i think i might have to get back behind the tables again too. headz dont know i've been Dj'in as long as i've been breaking. so basically im saying that the only way its gonna happen is if we get behind the tables n play them ourselves lol
any DJ's reading this that always play at Bboy events...heres some food for thought.
EMENIM
BUSTA RHYMES
ORGANIZED KONFUSION
TRIBE CALLED QUEST
DE LA SOUL
EPMD
RAKIM
NAS
WU TANG
ICE CUBE
ALKAHOLIKS
FREESTYLE FELLOWSHIP
PETE ROCK & CL SMOOTH
CHINO XL
CYPRESS HILL
HIEROGLYPHICS
COMMON
BOOT CAMP CLIK
BLACK SHEEP
GANGSTAR
JERU THE DAMAJA
LEADER OF THE NEW SCHOOL
LORDS OF THE UNDERGROUND
LL COOL J
NICE & SMOOTH
PUBLIC ENEMY
theres some gems u might wanna think about??????

true crumbs wuz deejay first style elements production i remember that!