Points Corrected pt 1: "Immortal Creations" (Origins of Legwork, Threads, Freezes)

[-DaZe-]

it doesnt matter if people have done any of these moves before because dyzee and his crew had a direct focus on legwork and variations, thats why so orginal not just one move the whole style.

[Bboy Zen]

Originally Posted by Kski

So you say that if anybody does these moves/techs without knowing where they've come from, then they're a biter...

Bold statement, especially as when somebody mentions that he's seen some of the techs on this video way back, you suggest its cool because you didn't know of them being done before you at the time...

l

Word

[dyzeesnd]

Originally Posted by Kski

So you say that if anybody does these moves/techs without knowing where they've come from, then they're a biter...

Bold statement, especially as when somebody mentions that he's seen some of the techs on this video way back, you suggest its cool because you didn't know of them being done before you at the time...

Not nickpicking (well maybe i am) but just think that as a lot of people look up to you and may take what you say as gospel, then perhaps you should be careful about making such broad statements.

On the plus side the video was cool

Sorry, perhaps i do need to make what im saying more clear.

If you SEE a move that everyone does, and you DO it, without FLIPPING it, or KNOWING WHERE IT CAME FROM, then what does that make you?

Answer: A BITER

Why? Because you saw, you bit, and you didnt flip, or even know why you are doing it besides, it just looks nice.


HOWEVER:
#1 if you have NEVER seen someone do a move (which is hard because of the internet), then it's your move. Now if you find out someone else does it, then FLIP it! It shouldn't be that hard for you to flip a move that you created. Because if you created something, you know how it works and why you created it, youll be able to flip the move left right and center.
If you BIT a move, then you only have the carbon copy in your brain, you will have a hard time knowing how to flip the move!

#2 If you know where the move came from, know the history behind it, and study or was taught the move or style, its ok to do the move because your paying homage and respects to a move or style and give credit to where it came from, and not trying to pass it off as if its your own.

You have to understand that every move, step and style has a meaning, purpose and history behind it. Not knowing it is like a person from a 3rd world country memorizing some english words from movies and just saying them because he thinks it sounds cool. "Ill be back! Whats up my nigga. Dry land is not a myth, Ive seen it! Thug Life."



If there are other oldschool bboys who danced like me (or me like them), thats cool because I've never seen them, or heard about them until long after my style developed. To think of it, it sort of makes my style official in some sense. But if I was inspired from them, I wouldn't have a problem admitting it. My style was first influenced by Crazylegs (crazy footwork), then Gizmo (Arsenal & Originality), Easyroc (Finesse), then Storm (Flow combos), then Lego Supernaturalz (Complexity), and lastly Alieness (Battle Strategy).
My style was refined through battling legendary rivals such as Megas and Deadly Mike.

My point is, that I know where my style comes from, how it came to be, and I choose each step or moves I do very carefully, especially the ones that were inspired from someone else. (Im nit picky much less now since I started studying foundation)

If people want to develop their own style, then need to be more nit picky and choosey what moves and steps they do. If they just do what ever they see on the internet, or whats trendy, then they will fall into the category of the generic bboy clones.

[excel]

Rare footage from the years 1999 to 2000 (maybe 2001?)
Showing many steps and moves that I (or my crew) created........ Is the word create ,that im having problem with, i mean your shirt pulling (for example) you took it from deadly mike ,maybe he took it from the kane s dancers ( from split , pulling the shirt to standing position ) . I mean nobody created anything , . to me create is what crazy legs did with back spins or mills .. peace. . kid roc.

[dyzeesnd]

Originally Posted by excel

Rare footage from the years 1999 to 2000 (maybe 2001?)
Showing many steps and moves that I (or my crew) created........ Is the word create ,that im having problem with, i mean your shirt pulling (for example) you took it from deadly mike ,maybe he took it from the kane s dancers ( from split , pulling the shirt to standing position ) . I mean nobody created anything , . to me create is what crazy legs did with back spins or mills .. peace. . kid roc.

Yeah and thats why I put his name in the credits, because I know where I got it from. The point is that I flipped it, a different entrance, different position, different dynamics, and different Freeze. I used my "Creativity" in order to do that. The concept of the shirtpull has been done before. But pulling the shirt from the back, up into a Freeze, I created, and ive seen people who do variations of it, by changing the freeze a little bit, or changing the entrance.

For example,
Someone created the headspin. (The creator)
Then someone created the continuous tapping headspin. (Not biting, but flipping).
Then someone created the gliding continuous headspin (Not biting, flipping)
Then people made all types of variations (Still not biting, flipping)

Then someone made the 1990 (not biting. Not flipping. perhaps inspired, but still a new creation)

Theres nothing wrong with the word create, creating, creations. The problem is people trying to put ownership on moves, telling others that they aren't allowed to flip them or be inspired by them. I'm not putting this out there saying "DONT DO THESE MOVES", but rather, "know where they came from, and flip them, be inspired, make new creations"

This perspective of bboying (originality) needs to come back and become a once again popular way of thinking... because being Fresh is mandatory in Hip hop.

[sapien82]

of course everyone knows that it is entirely possible for a planet of 7 billion people that two or more people will come up with the same original idea at or around the same time!

we only have to look to science or the arts , to see that two people can create the same thing or almost identically similar , the only thing is whoever tells anyone about it first and creates the buzz gets remembered.

perfect example , Marconi, and nikol tesla , first wireless transmission of radio signals !

as bboying progresses its going to be increasingly difficult for anyone to develop new moves.
However we can all hope to create new variations !

so it is extremely diffuclt for anyone not to copy whats been done before

I like your point dyzee that as long as you are consciously aware of where your idea came from
and who done it before you you can alter it to something new!

however biting someone and doing the exact same move and transition or way you enter the move is downright shamefull , if not at all flattering! :P

we all learn from everyone else and human collective knowledge !

[daft_pac]

powerful

[Girtis Holland]

Knowledge is definitely something that most of today's generation put on the back burner, sacrificing it to concentrate on fast progression with moves etc. Unfortunately, this generation will eventually be responsible to relay knowledge and history to future generations. I think it's about time they start learning the origins of moves in a more accurate light. There is one major problem though, and its the pioneers, ogs etc. Some moves are set in stone ie. everyone knows who made the move. Then, there are some moves with shadowy pasts and too many people trying to claim fame for them. This is a problem bc it becomes confusing and hearsay. Too many people out of the woodwork making claims and often erroneous ones and flat out lies to boot. I think that with the massive popularity of breaking nowadays, many of the old heads (often guys no one really knew about back then either) come out making illegitimate claims that moves are theirs to catch a piece of fame. This kind of stuff needs to stop asap. How can our history (best we preserve it without bias and embellishments) be told to the current generations and beyond when we cant even get it told accurately from the source.

[dyzeesnd]

Originally Posted by Girtis Holland

Knowledge is definitely something that most of today's generation put on the back burner, sacrificing it to concentrate on fast progression with moves etc. Unfortunately, this generation will eventually be responsible to relay knowledge and history to future generations. I think it's about time they start learning the origins of moves in a more accurate light. There is one major problem though, and its the pioneers, ogs etc. Some moves are set in stone ie. everyone knows who made the move. Then, there are some moves with shadowy pasts and too many people trying to claim fame for them. This is a problem bc it becomes confusing and hearsay. Too many people out of the woodwork making claims and often erroneous ones and flat out lies to boot. I think that with the massive popularity of breaking nowadays, many of the old heads (often guys no one really knew about back then either) come out making illegitimate claims that moves are theirs to catch a piece of fame. This kind of stuff needs to stop asap. How can our history (best we preserve it without bias and embellishments) be told to the current generations and beyond when we cant even get it told accurately from the source.

I absolutely agree with you Girtis. I believe that when someone is on the path to discovering the history of each move, and the dance itself, it leads you to a path of self discovery. We begin to understand ourselves better, as well as see that we are part of something bigger than just ourselves too.

I also agree that its a problem with people trying to "claim for fame". I believe that every person is already part of bboy history in some shape or form. That is why I am posting footage as some type of evidence of the moves so people can see 1) WHAT moves was I doing 2)WHEN I was doing these moves 3)HOW I was doing them
From here, people can post their footage as well, not to argue or fight over moves, but to contribute to the vocabulary and history of moves and styles. The proof is in the footage.

[excel]

proof is in the footage. !!!!! well not really, back when i was younger we dindt have jams ,competition , just went clubbing and break . No camera in the phone .just pagets. Camera was to big to bring in da club.lol.. The only proof i have is my memory. And ive seen some incredible dancers ,that nobody knows. One memory i have is this one dude who was doing a half body thread ( bring the leg just just in the back of his head , so i took the move and did the whole body thread .Now i see the body thread worldwide . im not saying i created this move , because that word is to much for me. lets say i took the move and made it better. this was around 88. peace , from: kid roc , tactical crew mtl breakerz .

[problems]

much respect to Dyzee!! nasty bboy!! i understand everything you are saying, i come from the same era but when you post something like this video make sure to give props to the all the bboy that influenced you, in the video or your initial comment, its only fare. you took the responsibility to teach bboy history so make sure to teach all of it, not just peaces of it, that only benefit you.
PS you are not old. you still got 10 more years to smoke more niggas LOL

[sapien82]

I guess that Im kind lucky in the sense that I train with bboys who got their knowledge from scottish heads from like 80 - 84 , the glasgow city breakers , LCC , two bboys archie and brian went to join with bboy EVO
and onto battle of the year!

so it's good to know that these guys have that knowledge and quite willingly share it every time I meet them at a party or a jam !Also on facebook