R16 2010 | Final Battle Jinjo vs Maximum - Page 11 - Bboy World Com

dyzeesnd · 03-14-2010, 09:36 AM

Hey Pundit, thank you very much for your intelligent questions and respective criticism. I just would like to ask if you read through these long posts? Some of your answers may have already been answered.

However, I will do my best to answer some of your concerns. I just ask that you have an open mind and be patient for the full release of the system coming july at R16.

1. We do have specialists in bboying. There are many people who are respected enough to know what they are looking at regarding their category. For example, Foundation/Fundamentals, Kenswift, Alieness, Crazy legz, Trac 2 just to name a few do specialize in this view of the dance as well as other categories/views. Yes there isnt a standard in that category to date, however, what would be the problem if there was a standard, as long as it is fair and well thought out?

2. The system was not created to be a handicap for bad judges. As a matter of fact, it is designed to point out the bad ones. However it does help the judges in making it easier for them to know and understand what they are looking at, especially if what they are looking at is what they are most familiar with. Isnt it worst to have a judge evaluate you on something that they do not know about? What if a well known powermover is the judge and doesnt know much about originality or creativity and gives someone who is well thought to be original, a biased vote against?

3.Please look back at the earlier posts to see what the numbers reflect. 5's mean perfect, so the judge needs to know what their standard of perfect means pertaining to their category. A long ass routine does not necessarily reap all the points from the judges, because the judges are evaluating their "level/quality" pertaining to their category. For example, a long ass flipping around routine, throwing people in the air cheerleading style will have a high level of Technique or possibly even originality, but what would the level be in terms of Fundamentals/Foundation?
Now if a judge starts changing their opinion regarding their category, then the dancers and audience will be able to check on his consistency.

As I said earlier, all your questions and concerns will be answered. I just would like you to know that this system has been 11 years in the making, and those gaps have been accounted for and filled in. If we do stumble upon something that has not already been thought of, I will be glad to admit it.

Thank you once again and keep the respective criticism coming.

said gamal · 03-14-2010, 12:55 PM

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkk You This Guy U Are Talkin About Is The Oneee This Guy Training So Fokin Hard Core ......... Am Sure U Are So In Love With Him Maybe He Dun Like Gays But Sorry Man I Like Come Here I Will Fire Your Asss Dude ......

Delet This Shit Or U Are In Truble Bitchhhhhhhhh

Shit In Your Faceeeee

USernamed · 03-14-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyzeesnd

To Usernamed. I understand where your coming from, not wanting bboying to get ruined. You love bboying the way it is, and wish things would never change. But life does keep changing, and if anything comes to a standstill, thats when it starts getting corrupted. Everything needs to grow until it reaches its full potential. Im not here to argue with you, I just want to discuss with you your questions.

-We choose a judge because we want a fair battle and there isnt a better way of judging at this time but to get someone who is respected by all to make a decision and choose a winner.
-Yes we trust them to do them, but unfortunately they dont always make the right decision and so many times everyone sees this happen.
-In the end why would you rather win or lose? by FACT or by OPINION?
-I was saying in earlier posts, but i guess you like to talk without doing your research first (which is normal) but the system you saw there was only a testing for the real system which will be launched at the r16 2010 july 2nd and 3rd in korea. Be patient to see the real thing, or if you want, you can go ahead and judge things by its prototypes. We didnt want to use the cards, but for the testing we had to.
-We arent trying to make bboying into a stupid sport. We want to make it into an intelligent well respected dance sport artform. But somepeople have been breaking for less than 10 years and they think they are experts in bboying and know everything about it, have already labelled it themselves and think they know whats best for it, and their own futures and dont want to see anything progress.
-When I say the dance is evolving, Im really sure of that. When I first saw breakin in 92, the only place anyone could see it was in dark dangerous underground hip hop parties where there were more gangs and fights than bboys. One in a while we would see a circle of people screaming, and we would run there and jump ontop of the people just incase one of our friends was getting their ass beat. There we would see cyphers where battles would "Organically" start between two crews. Are you telling me that this is the same as battles of today such as R16, BOTY, FSS, IBE, BC ONE etc?? It has evolved. If you are talking about the dance evolving in terms of moves or mentalities, then yes, it has evolved as well. Look how many different styles there are now. Look at all the people bringing in fresh new ideas. Yes its true we have some crews who like to do all the oldschool stuff (which is good) but at the same time creativity, and difficulty is being stretched and pushed farther and farther with every year.
-Some of us believe that it will make things better. Others think that it will make things worst. But I totally understand your concern for bboying to become ruined. But think of it this way, bboying is GROWING significantly, especially all around the world. Its only time that corporations come in and see that they can make money. In order to defend against this, we need to define what is a professional battle and make it OUR STANDARD, OUR RULES, and OUR SYSTEM, so that no corporation can come in and take that away.
This system is designed to keep preserved the "DANCE ASPECT" as well at the "TECHNIQUE". I agree that a system without it would not represent bboying at all. I just ask that you have an open mind and really see what its all about when we release the system to the public at the next r16 in july.

And about Boxing, nobody holds cards, but the crowd does know whos winning and losing.
Gymnastics is big, but its not on the level of Soccer, Football, Hockey etc. Bboying today is at the same level as gymnastics in terms of judging. The crowd doesnt really know whats going on or whos winning until the very end when they announce who wins. We want to make it so that the crowd knows who is winning throughout the entire battle. I hope you understand.

Peace

Yo dizee i respect your idea, and im looking forward to see the system all put toghether so we can see if its effective or not. Its just my opinion, no arguing.
About the evolution of bboying... there are many opinions... u surely have one and me too. I want things to change, for better not worse. I think that the most important thing is to spread the message and the knowledge, which lacks in this young generations of dancers even with the creation of big jams and events. With all the money thing and show business people will start to see this as a trend and not get into bboying for the love and respect of the culture. When u say that there are lots of different styles now,its true but there are lots of shit too (maybe 1 good/different bboy in 100). People bringing the new styles u say are people that practice for long now, not started now in this changing times... so we must not forget the future of bboying. I think that this judging battling issues are secondary, more important is too guranty the way of teaching and educating people so they can see our dance how it really is, and that few are doing...

I respect and understand u, if u say that this will help bboying...lets see...

Peace

RockONEski · 03-14-2010, 09:14 PM

Bboying is officially dead. That pointing system just killed every good thing in this artform.

Kaal · 03-14-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockONEski

Bboying is officially dead. That pointing system just killed every good thing in this artform.

read the 11 pages again, keep an open mind
do you think someone like dyzee wants to kill bboying? no, thats why he needs constructive criticism to lessen the "damage" (if there is any) on the culture with this system.

and this goes out to all the future ppls who are going to post the exact same useless comment like this guy

BizzieBrooxsMZK · 03-17-2010, 02:21 PM

idk... honestly this judging system is wack! no affense to any1 in particular.. i just feel like this point BS makes this more like a sport than an artform and that soon we'll be on ESPNwith judges who arent even bboys.. its just my opinion.. i dont agree with it!

Peace

homeopt · 03-17-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BizzieBrooxsMZK

idk... honestly this judging system is wack! no affense to any1 in particular.. i just feel like this point BS makes this more like a sport than an artform and that soon we'll be on ESPNwith judges who arent even bboys.. its just my opinion.. i dont agree with it!

Peace

Well, competitions and judging are two big parts of sport, so it's not unreasonable to say that bboyin, in some aspects like the bigger jams, is already there.

But the issue I have with this system is that in an attempt to be transparent, they may put bboys in the position of looking at the scores and letting that determine how they do their sets. If a crew sees that they have been getting lower scorses, maybe they decide to do more routines, or send out their best bboys more frequently. Or they may see that routines are not scoring well and stick to solo runs.

The intent is good but the execution is poor. Basically, what you need is a way for judges to be accountable, which this system does, but have it be less obtrusive and obvious.

bboyma. · 03-17-2010, 04:09 PM

craaazy!

nontaj · 03-17-2010, 05:27 PM

TO DYZEE and BLANKA

As an artist and as a bboy, I think that this system can work.
However, there are flaws in the system.

The issue that everyone is arguing about is the freedom of the dancer as an individual which is determined by the categories of the judging system.

For now, the main categories are:
Fundamentals *
Artistic
Dynamics
Execution
Battle *

I think to allow more freedom for the dancer and the judging system, two of the categories need to be elaborated.

FUNDAMENTALS
For example, instead of judging purely on fundamentals (problem - this will discourage abstract bboys or powerheads), why not judge on the basics in the style that each individual has evolved in.

To clarify, if you consider fundamentals, you also have to take into account the rejection of fundamentals (this could be powermoves) as well as the combination of those two.

As a result, the dancer will be judged in his strongest field whether it is FUNDAMENTALS, REJECTION OF FUNDAMENTALS, or a HYBRID of those two. He will be judged on his knowledge of his own style of dance.

I agree with artistic if by artistic you mean originality.
I also agree with dynamics and execution.

BATTLE
I think that you refer battle as RESPONSE in your interview and I think you should name it that way because battle is associated with words such as fight, combat, force, aggression.
However, the word response is more open and allows for more ways of replying - it can either be in a fierce way (like a battle), or in a funny way (like Noodle), or a fresh way (like Just do it).

I hope this judging system works better and will allow for more creativity in the dance

Toon
Robotops Crew

nontaj · 03-17-2010, 05:34 PM

one more thing, I think the scores should be 1 - 10 instead of 1 - 5.
This is allow more freedom for the judge to make his decision.

I saw Rubberlegz scoring 5 most of the time in the battle but I'm sure that he wanted to score more or less but didn't have enough cards to use :P

Swift Nyce · 03-17-2010, 08:02 PM

1-5 is a lot easier than 1-10 the way dyzee explain it shows why

Swift Nyce · 03-17-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BizzieBrooxsMZK

idk... honestly this judging system is wack! no affense to any1 in particular.. i just feel like this point BS makes this more like a sport than an artform and that soon we'll be on ESPNwith judges who arent even bboys.. its just my opinion.. i dont agree with it!

Peace

dont enter in a competition EVER AGAIN if you dont see this as a sport also... thanks