R16 2010 | Final Battle Jinjo vs Maximum

[neur20]

IMO Bboying dont have to be at the Olympics
By this it looses its SOUL

[charlie77]

Whattup from Cartel Creative and the R16... my names Charlie.
i guess when i have some more time, ill sit down and in detail and in length, ill give you my thoughts regarding the scoring system.. but for now..

real quick..
for my organization and for most of the bboys here in korea..
i really believe this system works and after we adjust things here.. it will continue to improve and be invaluable to the scene here..

mind you.. my crew and my organization do not really throw "jams"
not that we dont support them, but our role here in Korea is to produce big level comps that reach the masses...

And Because of the nature of the events that we produce,
The bboys here wanted and needed a way to understand the reason why their crew lost.. Nobody cares when they win, and theres only 1 winner at each of event, and everybody else is bitching and wanting to know why they lost.
And honestly, there is only so much a judge can do to explain their "reasoning/opinions" for their judging…

We needed a way to quantify a judges decisions..
Yeah, a lot of you are talking about round for round, keep it simple. Etc.
But it all breaks down to this…
Even if you don’t see what goes on in the mind of a judge..
The judge is looking at a battle and in his own way attaching a value or number to a bboys performance.

The system definitely needs tweaking..
For example The analog number system will be replaced something completely digital..
Allowing for the judges to spend more time watching the battles..
There will definitely be tweaks to the categories and the point spectrums etc..
Amongst the many other adjustments we will continue to make..

But don’t spit on or diss something that a lot of people have put a lot of thought into, in order to help the bboying community…. There is a lot of love and concern and hours being sacrificed to help YOU, the bboys in our worldwide communitiy get an edge..

And in the end. We decided to use this system so that we can make judging
As objective, transparent and as fair as possible..

This is the first time we've used this system in Korea..
Again. Its not perfect, but most of the most prolific bboy crews in Korea have agreed to take part in this experiment..
And we are listening to our community for ways to improve it..

Don’t hate..
If you don’t like it… don’t enter comps that use it..
Trust me.. There will be plenty of jams that will keep doing things the way you like.. Upholding the status quo..

But we need this in Korea…
We need something that can ease a lot of the hate and bitterness that usually taints the vibe of comps out here..

And don’t worry …
My crew, my company.. We love this culture..
We've sacrificed and paid our dues for this scene..
We aint here to fuck shit up…

Peace..

Will come back with more thoughts about the system…

Oh.. And to address some of the comments about this system being designed to foster more "all around bboys" .. This system was designed so that crews that are more heavily into one aspect/style of bboying have a chance to strategically influence their outcome….

2nd. In reply to the comments about the importance of the response / reaction aspect of a battle .. This system addresses that in a category that reflects the rhythmical "battle dialogue" that takes place in battles..

And ..
(quickly addressing this bboys as sport controversy)
alot of you are bitching about bboying being classified as a sport... first of all who gives a fuck…

Without a scoring system and way for the audience to become involved and vested into a competition, bboying is simply eye candy, a competition merely entertainment…
would you rather be classified simply as "entertainment"

in truth, we are a little bit of both and knowing how to straddle that fine point between an artist and, i daresay it, an athlete or competitor.. is the essence to our survival..
and within this realm, we might be mislabeled but again, who gives a fuck.. we know who we are? Right? I hope?
we knew who we were when no one gave a fuck about bboying, and i hope that we will know who we are
when it goes worldwide, when it becomes uncontrollably commercial..
anyways.. i digress..

[sipien]

i most say when u judge ..u should judge on instinct and taste ..feeling ,and self opinion its what makes this culture so amazing ...and addind a point system too the table it will only remove the essence that the dance trys to deliver ..and in the other hand if peoples are intrested in this dance/culture and day by day gettin into it ... is cuz of the spirit of what the dance delivers when its " raw " "soulfull"....

and that is gonna be hard too keep with a judge system cuz all the crews will have too adapt too that system to win ...it will take away the unique every crew has ..everybody will strife too the same and thats wack.!!

so yea basiclly i think "its not cool" and it can be the end of the fresh raw nice soufull bboy era and cyphers( the place were it all begin btw!) at least for r16 ,nbl and others if they go by this system...anyways ill def. stop competing if it comes up in all jams! let the dance sort it self.. eveybody is trying too correct something thats already perfect ... so yea hope jams like circle prince ,circle industry and others in that style dont follow that hype cuz thats how its supose too be ...thats what makes it special.... period!!

just puttin ma opinion out there yo ..hope u guys feel it ..dont mind wrightin back cuz ..im all about lovin not hatin

PS.btw I ALREADY TRIED TO JUDGE ON THIS SYSTEM ..! and the ones that i actually wanted too win by heart lost cuz of the score point !
pz
jung nation

[charlie77]

hey Street Dweller..
first of all .. just by looking at your nick... i understand where you want stay.. forever...
but alot of us would like to get off these streets .. and live a little.. ya feel me? hahaha..
LOL.. laughing at my own wit and sarcasm skills.. haha..

no for real..
just because theres a scoring system.. it does not mean some "machine" is telling you how to dance..
your logic states that by entering any competition where there is a judge, it creates a situation in which someone, this time a judge, is telling you how to dance? right?

anyways... you and alot of the fools hating on this thread make me sad... i didnt realize fools were so fucking conservative and afraid of new ideas in our community...

fucking right wing conservative republicans of the bboy world.. hahah..

anyways..
streetdweller.. fuck you..
no disrespect to the crews... just you... in general..

[streetdweller]

w/e maybe i was over the limit there "charlie77"

the machine thing i was talkin to the person that suggested that eventually all scores will just be recorded by machines..

fine my bad about the swearin and shit... i know dyzee came up with his system and as much as i disagree with it i have nothing but respect for dyzee so on that note i guess i should for r16 aswell.

i disagree with it because i don't think the dance should be split up like that.. into categories... and it's annoying to see a jam thats so huge... showing THAT WAY OF THINKING to such a big audience.
to me thats the equivalent of 50 cent... calling himself hip-hop.

i appologize for over-reacting but i find that shit very very damaging to bboying.

thats as much as i'll explain myself i don't care if anyone understands me.

[charlie77]

in reply to Blanka..
whattup..

again.. we are not trying to kill the cypher..
we are not trying to kill the "soul" of the bboy culture...

we are just trying to make competitions fair, transparent and easier to understand..
it wont be perfect.. no scoring system is.. but there was a need ...

on the real...
however way you decide to judge a battle...
if winning and losing is on the line...

then there needs to be something to make things fair...
ive been producing events learning from homies like, Cros, Tyrone, Hooch, Thomas, Erwin etc..
and one thing that ties all of our events together is the fact that..

all of you bitch about who should have won or what not..
maybe that also adds to the beauty and mystique of our culture..

but you know what... i wanted to be a part of something that lessens the hating..

yo.. even with this system.. crews will feel robbed .. and if you want to challenge a judge and battle..
no one will stop you...
but at least you maybe with this system you can argue with a judge more specifically about why at this point of a battle you felt robbed ...

after this R16, i already saw things i disagreed with..
there were battles like the one with your crew, Floor Gangz where i felt that the judging was off..
no disrespect and much love to Leadmos crew..

but again... we designed and implemented this system to give everybody a fighting chance..

we did not design this system to create some kind of bboy tyranny..
become bboy event dictators..
we just saw a need and we are attempting to fill a void..

take it or leave it, its up to you..
but please.. dont outright hate.. thats the last thing we want..
but fuck you to all the haters.. no disrespect to the crews . in general.. HAHAHA..

anyways...

[charlie77]

all right streetdweller..
peace peace..

but man.. we aint trying to damage the bboy scene...

and the reason we "split" it up into categories is to be fair..

first of all..
we felt that by creating categories...
we can allow a judge to judge within an aspect of the dance that he/she is most familiar with..
thus lessening the exclusion and bias that is growing within our scene ..
im really sick of that whole argument about foundation vs everybody else..
although im a little biased in that regard, because i truly believe in foundation and the fundamentals of bboying..

but i dont like the amount of hate that is being generated against other bboys and peeps trying to say who or who isnt a bboy..
anyways..

and by creating different categories...
we are making the job of the judge easier...
honestly its really hard to take everything into account when judging a battle..
and then confronting a judge about what happened..
and him trying to explain their viewpoint based on so many varying, personal reasonings and rationales..

its just easier for a bboy to see what it is he is being judged on..
on what criteria.. etc..
cuz hopefully we can create, i say it again, transparency and an easy understanding of why they won or lost..
cuz you can be like.. all right .. i acknowledge that i did well in this and this and i didnt do so well in this..

thats my 2 cents...
im just trying to help.. as we all are..
and i love this culture.. please please dont take that away from me..
or my peoples..

peace

[streetdweller]

in addition :
some other people here were talking about the money aspect...

a lot of people that do this thing here we call bboying do it because they love it... they don't care if they make money... and when you HARM something they love... you're gonna get flak from them.. expect it.

ruining their culture to provide more money... even to them... is gonna cause problems. i for one would rather NEVER WIN A JAM.... happy with who i am and what i do. you will forever find me in the ciphers.
i can make money other ways. i don't need or care about fame or others opinions on any way.

i'm sure i'm not the only one out there that thinks that way.

and to "charlie77" again... what you were talkin about that was referin to your scene in korea... never been there i know nothing of it. but r16 is an influential jam ALL OVER THE WORLD. whatever you portray there others will see... feeding the masses something that some consider harmfull is gonna make problems for you.

i know a lot of people are tryin to help ... in any way possible.. bboys in general get ambitious but we can't let that shit get the best of us and act without thinking of the consequences.

we have to decide what the fuck we want to be. ... artists or businessmen.

but i'm just a nobody. do what you want.

[Den1s]

fuck the system!
system - this shit! One friend of mine who has been dancing since the early 80's said that when the system will be - will have to flee from bboying. He was right!
The system takes the main thing - the soul!

useless to make the system understandable to ordinary people! sooner or later they all start asking, why are we in this round 3, not 4! is a vicious circle! or team manager to come and say - rubber legs constantly put 5 - it is not fair.
basic rule - do not like the judges, not take part in the competition!

Dance without rules!
peace

[streetdweller]

charlie.. no hard feelings .. again that post earlier was me runnin my mouth it was dumb.. but ya i understand the ideea i disagree with it and i can agree to disagree... and actually thinkin about it now... i can't blame anyone for bein active on what they believe... i would be a hypocrite then
so... this goes to EVERYONE that is on the same page with me on this topic...

if we feel that strong about this we should try to maintain what we believe the same way they are... act on our ambitions ...

i know people allready doing this
big ups to famous circle ... cipher famous especially filthee feet... perfect example... and on that global note so others may know what i'm talkin about:
CIRCLE KINGZ.

ok i'm done with this peace and respect i'll shut up now.

[sipien]

sup charlie ..hope all is good with u and pz at u

but back to the topic ..no hate towards u or r16 i mean that seriously!

but i still disagree on the point system... no matter what u do there will always be bitchin and complains on a competiton no matter what judge system or whatever!.... u feel me ?

but like u said yes my crew did smoked leadmos no disrespect to leadmos! but they did

and like u said urself they should ve won... but they didnt cuz this system takes away the soul, taste and feeling out of a judge and belive me i know better cuz i tried it ..and that why i dont agree with it .. thats ma opnion ..but again its your jam and u guys do what its best for it ..and trying too come with new things i respect that ...but remember ....!!!

its not about the promoters ,the money ,the exposure, its about the dance culture the people who live and die for it

the BBOYS

all respect too r16 staff and my man charlie who btw is mad cool and a good man ...

peoples dont make a bad vibe if u diagree have respect towards one and another and lets discuss this with love and understandin

thats it

pz love unity havin fun

[charlie77]

Yo! Streetdwella..

man.. its not like i dont know what youre talking about..
i do man.. i really really do..
but what are we really doing to harm the culture?

the only thing we are doing is taking out alot of the guessing...

if anything... this will hopefully help alot of bboys decide what comps to enter or not...
but ill tell you this... and you can ask most any bboy whos been to one of my events..
and the competitions although important is the least important aspect of my event..
the biggest part of the R16, Freestyle Session, IBE, Evolution, BOTY, the UK Champs..
is the bboys and crews getting together, networking, sharing, learning, partying, building..

yes.. no matter what, there will be complaints and hate..
but im making a bet and investing in this idea because i truly believe that it will help..

and yo.. even the bboys who are trying to make a living and career out of bboying.. they have a love
just as strong as those who simple do it for the love of it..

the competition aspect of it,
man.. its just a game bro... and even if you until now have never seen the points involved..
there were always points...

you can dance however way you want... if you choose to dance based on scores in order so that you can win the "game" that is your choice and freedom..

if you decide to play the game, and ignore the system.. and just be free with it..
you can do that also... it doesnt mean that you will lose.. you can just as well win..

all we are trying to provide is a framework for understanding..

and again.. to address both you and Blanka..
yeah.. the complaints and gripes will forever be there as long as there is a distinction made between winners and losers.. and against the fact that the judging will be based on the decision making skills of imperfect fallible human beings, no matter how ill of a bboy they are or how OG they are..
but what does it hurt to try...

in the end.. if it really doesnt work.. people will fight against an unfair, hurtful system.. thats the way things work ...
and im not a fool... ill listen and judge for myself...
but only experimentation and trial will be able to prove if this system works or not...
and this shit just got launched on Saturday..and all of you are going apeshit, pointing fingers and rolling on the floor in pain..
calm down..
its like i said the world is round and all of you are like.. NOOO! the world is FLAT! BLASHPHEMY!

man... if every time someone had an idea and then listened to some random fool who was like
thats wack. dont try it.. don do that.. its not gonna work etc...
i fear what kind of world that would be..

wed all still be living in fucking caves, chewing on sticks. hahhaha