R16 2010 | Final Battle Jinjo vs Maximum

[charlie77]

hey Blanka.. whattup fam..
hows everyone in your crew.. tell em i said hello!
and thank you for your honest opinions regarding this..
much love..
and thanks for your support..

coming back to Floor Gangz..
the battle was really close..
and Ducky, who is also a member of Floor Gangz was a judge..
but anyways.
what i wanted to say is this..
they could have been at any other comp, and we might have been like..
word.. they smoked the competition..
they could have just as well lost in some other competition under the same situation..
same judges, no point system..
and we would have been like.. Ahh.. thats wack..
again. no disrespect to Leadmos, they are homies too..
and they were really ill in that battle too..

but all im saying is that.. that any judging system is not perfect..
all im trying to do is make it transparent..
at least we can say.. shit.. look at the points..
we dont agree with this.. we can fix this here and make adjustments there..
but without a way to organize our thoughts, and the points being a reflection of a judges thoughts..
there is no way to adjust and make things Fair..

anyways.. thats part of my thinking on this..

[charlie77]

To all the Korean Bboys and concerned fans of Korean bboying..
especially to the Korean people reading this..
i wish my korean were good enough to express all of my thoughts in Korean..
and i will soon.. but its a bit harder for me to do that..

and i also dont want to get the Korean people possibly upset, or misinterpret my language or tone of my
words...
the way i express myself on these boards are very different than how i would express myself in Korean or
in Korea... so please forgive my language and my attitude/manner..

to the rest of those reading my writings and not understanding why im writing this..

the Korean culture and the manner in which one expresses oneself is fully immersed and based in
Respect and humility..

and the way in which i express myself in english is irreverent and often sarcastic..
and in regards to the judging system which i place alot of value in..
i didnt want the way in which i expressed myself in english to demean and undermine my work in Korea..

Peace..

[Hafiy]

Hello Charlie, peace & respect to what you're trying to do. At it's present form, the system to me in general is not fluid enough to let the battle flow but I think everyone would generally like to see the development of it. Will it bring a positive or negative change? Time will tell. I hope everyone can give their objective assessment.

Peace.

[charlie77]

hey Hafiy.
thanks for the comments.
i do agree with you.
and honestly, i did not want to use the point cards we used at the event on saturday.
we just had no choice as there was a technical difficulty..
but of course we are going to tweak it..

and man.. if the system does anything.. the one thing i want to do is to make things more enjoyable..
the system was designed to implement an element of strategy behind it ...
actually the strategy in a bboy battle was always there..
like playing a game of poker and knowing when to do what and when..
but the point system makes the strategy more visible and tangible..

again.. there is nothing perfect in the world..
but the least we can do is try..

[mustafunk]

This and all the point or new judging systems suck, and are making a pure sport and show about this. And you know why? Because It will make the bboys, to focus more on the point or judgin system instead of focusing in expressing themselves, with control and rawness.

The battles are going to become a fucking show with this... it is going to be the same because the battle concept its becoming totally missed, also at the end you arent even going to fucking care about the other contender because you are worried about the points and all the aspects to get a high scoring. You are actually dancing for the judges like in the Olimpics instead of dancing against your fucking contender!! So senseless!!

This is WACK... bboying is an artform not a fucking sport... who fucking cares to get money from the dance, or sponsors, more media? Get a proper job and dont try to exploit this artform that you are supposed to be loving... dance for the love, for the culture itself, not for competitions, for promoting yourself, for fame, to be hired as judge or for dance workshops... I dont give a dang about that!

This is killing the vibe... this is the whole point about the wack present situation. The people are too worried about money, competitions, respect, making good solo teasers to upload them to bboyworkd, getting fame and be well known to be able to live from this... awww man, its ridiculous.

[EmoFilipino]

This is my opinion, and I myself am still questioning the judging system.

I really hope Dyzee or someone who came up with this judging system, can explain in their perspective why the decision to change the judging system to this was done. I really, really do not see what is so wrong of testing this system. Charlie has already said it's just an experiment in progress, there is actually nothing wrong of trying new things?

One thing I've always hated in bboy battles, nowadays, is that it seems that when it's like a comp, like Top 9 vs Tip in Battle of the Year 2008, everyone was questioning and asking, "Why did Top 9 win?" They shouldn't have won! Or in Freestyle Session, when Zulu Kings won the whole competition, and everyone was making a big deal, saying "Why did they win against Gamblers? I don't understand." What this judging system does is explain why a certain crew wins, it does NOT destroy the vibe because you as the audience is going to focus on the music and the bboys either way. I feel that the main reason this system is being done in R16 this year is because it can explain why a certain crew won, through a point system.

But this is just my view. I can understand why some people would be mad, though, but I think Charlie is tryinng his best to make it clear why this system is being done.

[sipien]

Originally Posted by charlie77

hey Blanka.. whattup fam..
hows everyone in your crew.. tell em i said hello!
and thank you for your honest opinions regarding this..
much love..
and thanks for your support..

coming back to Floor Gangz..
the battle was really close..
and Ducky, who is also a member of Floor Gangz was a judge..
but anyways.
what i wanted to say is this..
they could have been at any other comp, and we might have been like..
word.. they smoked the competition..
they could have just as well lost in some other competition under the same situation..
same judges, no point system..
and we would have been like.. Ahh.. thats wack..
again. no disrespect to Leadmos, they are homies too..
and they were really ill in that battle too..

but all im saying is that.. that any judging system is not perfect..
all im trying to do is make it transparent..
at least we can say.. shit.. look at the points..
we dont agree with this.. we can fix this here and make adjustments there..
but without a way to organize our thoughts, and the points being a reflection of a judges thoughts..
there is no way to adjust and make things Fair..

anyways.. thats part of my thinking on this..

word ...yea my fam is good doin big things and trying to show and spread some "jung" out in this culture ..

but yo ..i see were u coming from ..but i still dont think that kinda point system is needed tho.. at least not in that extrem... also cuz thats all against what me in my crew stands for.atleast for now until i see the outcome of it ...hope u understand..but i respect your opinion ,the work u guys puttin in too it and i wish you all luck with it .. hope u guys come throug with makin it flawless...

all my regards too u and everyone behinde r16..no matter what its still one of the competitons wich the organization is flawless the bboy treatment is amazin ..and the vibe is super nice!

im out


1luv yo

ps. say congrats too johnjay from me !!

[CitruS]

i think bboying can be both for you: sport and art.

to me its mainly art, but people must realise that art can never be compared as in the sense of: this art is better then the other art over there.
art is just art. there is no better art.

if you want to be competing you want to compare your dancing to that of someone else. then you start to bring in an aspect of sports. then you need something to tell you who is better.
thats what has always happened at jams. our system are the judges.
the only difference is: judges decided by gut and experience. nothing wrong with that. works perfectly with a bboying crowd.
but at those huge jams there are also people who need to understand what the judges were exactly thinking about. i think the system can help with this part of events.
the only danger is, that the system could fail sometimes and lead to wrong winners. which should be avoidable by changing it until its. perfect.
i dont think its like a machine telling you how to dance. its still the judges telling you how to dance.
but thats ok with me as long as they dont tell me how to dance for myself.
plus i think just big events with non bboying crowd should use it to show the world how bboying is (kind of) judged.
but i also dont really know. i just think, give it a chance. if it turns out to be not working let it go.
just remember to not change your dancing, just because some event uses certain cathegories to present the outcome to the public.
aaah whatever, i myself dont really know what to think of this. prehaps i should just watch the battle now and see by myself, before im loosing myself in theories.

[CitruS]

but there will still be tons of fail judges and good ones. because also with this system, it is still up to the judge if he gives you a 1 or a 5. one judge might like a funny battle style or maybe even calm one. and the other one will only feel the super cocky one.

and another thing. people battling might stop feeling the battle and will only be thinking all the time.

numbers should only be showen after the battle.

[iverson59]

I agree: if notes are displayed, bboy will start to overthink the battle, like "Oh shit, he gave me a two, so I'm gonna bring my best set tot the table" or "he doesn't like me when I'm calm, so I'm gonna be cocky as hell and agress the opponent"

Battle will be less natural...

But with hidden notes, it could work, let's give it some time before we start arguing

[jMTSGh]

it's not exactly the same as Dyzee's system cos he organized a battle here and used his system and it was kinda different.

i like the breakdown of FATES/FADES, especially if the judges are properly labelled. Anyone in the audience who is interested in why the judges judged that way will then have a starting point in their research on breakin.

also, if you're a bboy/crew who will adjust specifically to this system, then you're the one who's wack, not the system. it's still about feeling, anyway.

and take note that this system is NEVER gonna be used in a cypher, and it doesn't measure you up as a bboy. it only "tries" to measure what it says it does.
if you disagree, don't participate.
if you participate and still disagree, openly protest with well thought-out reasons. like the ninjas

on the other hand, it's quite hard to be a judge here cos it's limiting, and sometimes even insulting to heavily experienced judges. if a crew did something really artistic, but you're judging execution, and it was a bit sloppy, you're caught in a bind. anyways, if you're the judge you can still vote any which way you want.

i totally agree with the statement that breakin battles are a balance between art and sport. cos even heads who promote the "feeling" way still talk about having to add some strategy about battling.

anyways, the system's not really perfect yet. but this is a step in the right direction.

as far as the whole scene goes?

"..."

a variant of that system was used in the last battle i was in, and another variant will be used in the next battle i'll be in, though. we're using our own variants cos we like what the system does but we don't have the same system implemented.

i don't really mind. i don't want my boys to stay poor. let's all work together.

[fantony]

just give it a try, cuz it may work.